This is one of several polls I'll be initiating, prompted by a discussion on another thread about the extent to which racism is an underlying factor in the activities of those seeking to take back America, whatever that means.
It is certainly alive, but is it "well?" If it's an all-or-nothing thing, then yes it is alive and well. If it is a question regarding the kind of de facto and de jure racism that existed here 50,100, 150, 200 years ago, then it is a thing of the past.
Submitted by Jake Gellar-Goad on Wed, 07/28/2010 - 6:05pm.
On our way back from a road trip to Asheville, NC & Nashville, TN with a group of people we stopped for gas on the side of Knoxville closer to the mountains (anti-abortion/pro-jesus bill boards freaking everywhere in TN, but serious excess of them in Knoxville).
The store attendant made small talk with my husband after I was already back in the car. I'm reposting from facebook my husband's recollection of what the guy said when he heard we were on our way back to our home in NC:
Oh, Chapel Hill, is that near Rallay? You got nice people there, even the blacks are nice. Not like here, they a bunch o' horse's asses. My son, he used t' live in Rallay, now he's in Atlanta, the blacks are horse's asses there too.
I was quite happy to get back across state lines into a liberal haven like North Carolina. They just assumed that b/c he's white and in TN I guess, that racist talk was common place enough to be small talk.
Having grown up in Tennesse, gone to school in Knoxville, lived all over the south, midwest and the northeast, I am offended at your crude characterization. I guess you must the final artiber of speech and accents. I have never, ever had a stranger bring up race in a casual conversation at a gas station. I'm gonna call you a liar and a bigot right here. Yep, you too can exhibit bigoted thoughts and statements. There is racism and bigotry all over this world, even in your enclave of Chapel Hill. Thanks for taking a slap at some sterotype of a person that may or may not exist. And as far as an excess of billboards, let the local folks decide if it is too much. They are capable of figuring things out for themselves.
"A point in every direction is the same as no point at all" - Pointless Man
Submitted by scharrison on Wed, 07/28/2010 - 11:03pm.
I have never, ever had a stranger bring up race in a casual conversation at a gas station.
and I'm prepared to take your word that it is, that still doesn't provide you the proof or the justification for calling somebody a liar, Piper. I'm sure you know better than that.
Submitted by Jake Gellar-Goad on Wed, 07/28/2010 - 11:30pm.
I'm gonna call you a liar
a person that may or may not exist
I found the location on google maps. I remembered the place because we were at a set of 2 gas stations side by side. With 4 us and limited restroom situations we fanned out to both of them to get snacks, get gas, and use the restrooms on our road trip. I remembered walking up a hill and climbing over a fence instead of walking around. I'm pretty sure I got a set of those fireball candies at the lower elevation gas station, and if you still live in Knoxville you can check the higher up one, the restroom will be on the south most side of the building. You walk in, make an immediate right to walk past the roughly north facing counter where the clerk is, make a left when you get to the corner of the building, walk a few feet and you'll be at the restroom. The facebook post I quoted is from May 20 on a facebook wall and was commented on by one of the other people on the trip. And I'll even throw in a picture of us at Nashville in a place that is uniquely recognizable as Nashville to prove I was in TN on a road trip. While obviously there aren't tape recorders to prove what was said beyond all doubt, I've done my best to document that we did go on a road trip where we would have necessarily passed through Knoxville on the way there and back, provided a picture of the location, and given information that could only be known about the inner layout of the building by someone who has been inside it, and referenced a 3 month old post that was commented on by another member of the trip about the comment in question.
Ok, calling you a liar was way over the top and I do apologize. Adult beverages may have been involved. I know better than to blog late at night. I'll leave it that I am very skeptical about the content of the conversation and since I wasn't there to hear it, then that is just my bias coming thru. But nonetheless, you didn't have to make fun of the way someone talks.
"A point in every direction is the same as no point at all" - Pointless Man
Submitted by Brunette on Thu, 07/29/2010 - 11:36am.
I like the quote from "Pointless man." It reminds me of another, which is that to see the devil in everything is just as bad as not seeing the devil in anything.
As a Southerner, I'm prone to taking offense when someone makes fun of accents in a tone that indicates a sense of superiority. As a Southerner, I love to make fun of accents, but it is by no means with a sense that mine is superior. At a certain level, we Southerners feel pride in the rich variety of accents that characterize the region.
My direct experience living for a while in East Tennessee was that strong antipathy toward blacks was quite overt in certain communities. This can be said of every state in the union, but in the South it is rightly associated with the legacy of slavery, so the issue has been something most of us grew up with. This has the effect, frequently, of making Southerners bristle at others' ridicule while we feel comfortable making fun of each other. It's kinda like that thing where females will let each other off for saying "bitch" but men -- not so much.
I recently enjoyed watching the smug expressions fade from the faces of classmates in a course that required readings in history. So many young northern born students in the class had been unaware of their regions' legacy with slavery and the extent to which bigotry prevails well beyond the South.
In any case, I am grateful that the South overall has made a great deal of progress since back in the day Strom Thurmond was denouncing miscegeny and impregnating the family's black maid.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
Submitted by Jake Gellar-Goad on Thu, 07/29/2010 - 12:08pm.
While I'm hoping this wont add to the detour this thread is on from its main point, I just would point out that everyone involved from the gas station guy, my husband, and myself who resposted his facebook wall post are all southerners. My husband studies languages for a living and is thus prone to pointing out different ways language is used, but he's pretty equal opportunity about it, whether its something he's said, or I've said, or family/friends. And, as someone who grew up in Mayberry, I am prone to the occasional ain't or y'all or saying pin & pen the same way, heck even crown and crayon are nearly indistinguishable when they come out of my mouth, and I can use double modals all day long (might could). I wouldn't even know the term double modal if not for him pointing it out when I did it, but that's what I get for marrying a linguist. =p Sometimes I'll even reckon that something is a good idea. I also used to say pop nearly as often as I said soda, until I moved to the triangle for college.
All this to say it was all southerners involved, and he wasn't picking on the guy just for saying something racist.
Racism
This is one of several polls I'll be initiating, prompted by a discussion on another thread about the extent to which racism is an underlying factor in the activities of those seeking to take back America, whatever that means.
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.
Voted Yes
I don't think there's any other realistic answer to the question asked. I sincerely doubt that there's a nation on Earth in which racism is dead.
Cheers,
The Black Sheep
Cheers,
The Black Sheep
I was hoping we'd find at least one thing we could agree on
All is well
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.
You're 100% right on that
Hey, we agree! Unfortunately, I agree that there is no where on the planet that bigotry and racism aren't still playing a role.
Syd
Alive and well?
It is certainly alive, but is it "well?" If it's an all-or-nothing thing, then yes it is alive and well. If it is a question regarding the kind of de facto and de jure racism that existed here 50,100, 150, 200 years ago, then it is a thing of the past.
I have an acquaintance in Richmond
who would say it's both "well" and "welcome." He knows he represents some of the last vestiges of pure racial hate ... a fact he's rather proud of.
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.
Knoxville, TN
On our way back from a road trip to Asheville, NC & Nashville, TN with a group of people we stopped for gas on the side of Knoxville closer to the mountains (anti-abortion/pro-jesus bill boards freaking everywhere in TN, but serious excess of them in Knoxville).
The store attendant made small talk with my husband after I was already back in the car. I'm reposting from facebook my husband's recollection of what the guy said when he heard we were on our way back to our home in NC:
I was quite happy to get back across state lines into a liberal haven like North Carolina. They just assumed that b/c he's white and in TN I guess, that racist talk was common place enough to be small talk.
Tolerance?
Jake,
Having grown up in Tennesse, gone to school in Knoxville, lived all over the south, midwest and the northeast, I am offended at your crude characterization. I guess you must the final artiber of speech and accents. I have never, ever had a stranger bring up race in a casual conversation at a gas station. I'm gonna call you a liar and a bigot right here. Yep, you too can exhibit bigoted thoughts and statements. There is racism and bigotry all over this world, even in your enclave of Chapel Hill. Thanks for taking a slap at some sterotype of a person that may or may not exist. And as far as an excess of billboards, let the local folks decide if it is too much. They are capable of figuring things out for themselves.
"A point in every direction is the same as no point at all" - Pointless Man
If this is true:
and I'm prepared to take your word that it is, that still doesn't provide you the proof or the justification for calling somebody a liar, Piper. I'm sure you know better than that.
Liar?
I found the location on google maps. I remembered the place because we were at a set of 2 gas stations side by side. With 4 us and limited restroom situations we fanned out to both of them to get snacks, get gas, and use the restrooms on our road trip. I remembered walking up a hill and climbing over a fence instead of walking around. I'm pretty sure I got a set of those fireball candies at the lower elevation gas station, and if you still live in Knoxville you can check the higher up one, the restroom will be on the south most side of the building. You walk in, make an immediate right to walk past the roughly north facing counter where the clerk is, make a left when you get to the corner of the building, walk a few feet and you'll be at the restroom. The facebook post I quoted is from May 20 on a facebook wall and was commented on by one of the other people on the trip. And I'll even throw in a picture of us at Nashville in a place that is uniquely recognizable as Nashville to prove I was in TN on a road trip. While obviously there aren't tape recorders to prove what was said beyond all doubt, I've done my best to document that we did go on a road trip where we would have necessarily passed through Knoxville on the way there and back, provided a picture of the location, and given information that could only be known about the inner layout of the building by someone who has been inside it, and referenced a 3 month old post that was commented on by another member of the trip about the comment in question.
I'd recommend an apology
right about here, Mr. Piper.
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.
I apologize
Ok, calling you a liar was way over the top and I do apologize. Adult beverages may have been involved. I know better than to blog late at night. I'll leave it that I am very skeptical about the content of the conversation and since I wasn't there to hear it, then that is just my bias coming thru. But nonetheless, you didn't have to make fun of the way someone talks.
"A point in every direction is the same as no point at all" - Pointless Man
Piper's point
I like the quote from "Pointless man." It reminds me of another, which is that to see the devil in everything is just as bad as not seeing the devil in anything.
As a Southerner, I'm prone to taking offense when someone makes fun of accents in a tone that indicates a sense of superiority. As a Southerner, I love to make fun of accents, but it is by no means with a sense that mine is superior. At a certain level, we Southerners feel pride in the rich variety of accents that characterize the region.
My direct experience living for a while in East Tennessee was that strong antipathy toward blacks was quite overt in certain communities. This can be said of every state in the union, but in the South it is rightly associated with the legacy of slavery, so the issue has been something most of us grew up with. This has the effect, frequently, of making Southerners bristle at others' ridicule while we feel comfortable making fun of each other. It's kinda like that thing where females will let each other off for saying "bitch" but men -- not so much.
I recently enjoyed watching the smug expressions fade from the faces of classmates in a course that required readings in history. So many young northern born students in the class had been unaware of their regions' legacy with slavery and the extent to which bigotry prevails well beyond the South.
In any case, I am grateful that the South overall has made a great deal of progress since back in the day Strom Thurmond was denouncing miscegeny and impregnating the family's black maid.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
Language
While I'm hoping this wont add to the detour this thread is on from its main point, I just would point out that everyone involved from the gas station guy, my husband, and myself who resposted his facebook wall post are all southerners. My husband studies languages for a living and is thus prone to pointing out different ways language is used, but he's pretty equal opportunity about it, whether its something he's said, or I've said, or family/friends. And, as someone who grew up in Mayberry, I am prone to the occasional ain't or y'all or saying pin & pen the same way, heck even crown and crayon are nearly indistinguishable when they come out of my mouth, and I can use double modals all day long (might could). I wouldn't even know the term double modal if not for him pointing it out when I did it, but that's what I get for marrying a linguist. =p Sometimes I'll even reckon that something is a good idea. I also used to say pop nearly as often as I said soda, until I moved to the triangle for college.
All this to say it was all southerners involved, and he wasn't picking on the guy just for saying something racist.
Thank you
And I hope that I did not offend you or your husband, because such a result was far from my intention in posting.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
Certainly none was taken
I was just adding some clarity to the situation =)