To me, the scariest thing about the current GA is that there are so many bad bills that it's tough for the public to understand everything that's going on. It's a firehose of bad idea. The only way to combat that and raise the public awareness is to burn 'em all up. In fact, that would be pretty good if she not only stamped a bill with a veto but lit it on fire on her desk!
Submitted by scharrison on Thu, 03/24/2011 - 2:06pm.
to Veto everything, but it's not a good idea for several reasons.
First, it would soon become extremely difficult for Dem leaders to sustain the numbers (votes) to block an override. And the conservative (or even centrist) Dems wouldn't even have to vote against Bev, they could abstain or absent themselves.
Second, it would actually take the focus off the legislation itself and put it on partisan politics. So the extra-crazy, extra-damaging bills would be in the same class as the more moderate ones, making it more about process than product.
Third, it would boost sympathy for the GOP to even higher levels amongst the voting public, virtually guaranteeing it would be Myers Park Pat wielding the Veto stamp over a super-majority GOP Legislature.
In case you're wondering, I clicked the "most of them" selection above, because there's way too many damaging bills to just select a few.
Submitted by usernamehere on Thu, 03/24/2011 - 2:39pm.
To your points:
1) It's not about stopping every bill. Whether in the veto-everything scenario or the scenario you lay out, no one expects every bill will be stopped with a veto. Stopping bills is not the goal.
2) Using a historically new veto would actually bring attention to the legislation -- as evidenced by the coverage of the two vetoes so far. Your assertion may be true in years to come, but it is certainly not the case in this election cycle (new veto, first time for GOP legislaure & Dem governor).
3) I truly don't understand this argument. If you assert Point 1 above, why is sympathy generated for the victors (the GOP that overrides the veto)?
Governor Perdue, get out the veto...even though you're going to lose some (or even most).
It's about making a clear and distinct choice from the policies of the GOP. People are going to want a change in Nov 2012.
being approved by the Tarheel Taliban vetoed as a matter of principle. Here's why ... to restate my earlier point.
Perdue is grasping onto the short end of the a shrinking stick. She has stood for almost nothing in terms of proactive positions. She didn't lead on raising taxes on millionaires, for example, which was a no brainer.
The ONLY position she can win on is being the last bastion of hope against a grossly over-reaching General Assembly. McCrory would be a rubber stamp for every piece of crap legislation that came across his desk.
Perdue has to veto enough of this nonsense to be KNOWN as the last line of defense, without going over the line into being arbitrary and capricious. To me, 50% is the minimum required to build that reputation among an electorate that has the attention span of a gnat. Plus, Graig's comment about torching the bullshit bills would be just the kind of theatre needed.
Simple veto stamps for 25% of the bills that cross her desk.
Rip and shred another 15%
Set fire to another 10%
That gets you to half.
And don't underestimate the power of theatre. Graig's idea is brilliant, but I doubt Bev or her staff have the balls to stand tall like that. Which is why the odds will be heavily in favor of Art Pope owning the Governor's mansion as well as the General Assembly.
Submitted by scharrison on Thu, 03/24/2011 - 5:54pm.
To me, 50% is the minimum required to build that reputation
I also think bills the GOP doesn't "sneak" through, and that are allowed healthy debate, amendments heard on the floor, etc., should be less prone to Veto. If that kind of positive reinforcement opens the door to a better information environment, it's worth it.
I know some reading this might say, "It won't matter."
But information always matters, even if it merely exposes how people ignore it.
Submitted by scharrison on Thu, 03/24/2011 - 6:15pm.
our 25% conservative readership hasn't dropped off severely since the election. I can only assume that 17% "None of them" in the poll are mostly the same peeps.
I just don't know if I'm glad or sad about that. I mean, I'd rather they read BlueNC than the National Enquirer, professional wrestling magazines or the Anarchist's Cookbook. But somebody's been spitting Red Man into whatever marginally concave container they can find, and that's just nasty.
NObody reads their crap anymore, which is why they have an army of Puppets hand-delivering it to the General Assembly on Pope's nickle. If they had to rely on the so-called grass roots for support, funding, traction, or whatever, they wouldn't exist.
If you want to draw them in, it's a piece of cake. Just toss a few verbal hand-grenades in John Hood's direction. His ego is so large that he has to read what you write, sort of like people who rubberneck at fatal accidents. That's because he thinks his ideas actually matter.
Without Pope's money, old' John would be just another tap-dancing clown looking for a handout.
Submitted by wwestmor on Fri, 03/25/2011 - 10:59am.
So long as she vetoes the Voter ID bill, I'm fine if she signs everything else that comes to her desk. Anything else can be fixed when Democrats take back the GA but if this bill passes, Democrats won't be taking anything back for quite some time...
Nathan Westmoreland
President - UNC-CH Young Democrats
Submitted by Jake Gellar-Goad on Mon, 03/28/2011 - 4:09pm.
there is a committee meeting that's open to the public happening on Wed March 30th at 1 pm that will probably last just under an hour, where they are going to be discussing this bill in room 643 in the legislative office building. Its a good chance for anyone who wants to go learn about it, or show your opposition to the bill.
Fight a firehose with a fire
To me, the scariest thing about the current GA is that there are so many bad bills that it's tough for the public to understand everything that's going on. It's a firehose of bad idea. The only way to combat that and raise the public awareness is to burn 'em all up. In fact, that would be pretty good if she not only stamped a bill with a veto but lit it on fire on her desk!
Burn baby burn
I LOVE THIS IDEA
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.
I understand the drive
to Veto everything, but it's not a good idea for several reasons.
First, it would soon become extremely difficult for Dem leaders to sustain the numbers (votes) to block an override. And the conservative (or even centrist) Dems wouldn't even have to vote against Bev, they could abstain or absent themselves.
Second, it would actually take the focus off the legislation itself and put it on partisan politics. So the extra-crazy, extra-damaging bills would be in the same class as the more moderate ones, making it more about process than product.
Third, it would boost sympathy for the GOP to even higher levels amongst the voting public, virtually guaranteeing it would be Myers Park Pat wielding the Veto stamp over a super-majority GOP Legislature.
In case you're wondering, I clicked the "most of them" selection above, because there's way too many damaging bills to just select a few.
Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more
To your points:
1) It's not about stopping every bill. Whether in the veto-everything scenario or the scenario you lay out, no one expects every bill will be stopped with a veto. Stopping bills is not the goal.
2) Using a historically new veto would actually bring attention to the legislation -- as evidenced by the coverage of the two vetoes so far. Your assertion may be true in years to come, but it is certainly not the case in this election cycle (new veto, first time for GOP legislaure & Dem governor).
3) I truly don't understand this argument. If you assert Point 1 above, why is sympathy generated for the victors (the GOP that overrides the veto)?
Governor Perdue, get out the veto...even though you're going to lose some (or even most).
It's about making a clear and distinct choice from the policies of the GOP. People are going to want a change in Nov 2012.
It will generate sympathy
because it will give the impression (via the media) that Dems aren't giving Republicans a chance to lead.
I'd like to see at least half of the bullshit bills
being approved by the Tarheel Taliban vetoed as a matter of principle. Here's why ... to restate my earlier point.
Perdue is grasping onto the short end of the a shrinking stick. She has stood for almost nothing in terms of proactive positions. She didn't lead on raising taxes on millionaires, for example, which was a no brainer.
The ONLY position she can win on is being the last bastion of hope against a grossly over-reaching General Assembly. McCrory would be a rubber stamp for every piece of crap legislation that came across his desk.
Perdue has to veto enough of this nonsense to be KNOWN as the last line of defense, without going over the line into being arbitrary and capricious. To me, 50% is the minimum required to build that reputation among an electorate that has the attention span of a gnat. Plus, Graig's comment about torching the bullshit bills would be just the kind of theatre needed.
That gets you to half.
And don't underestimate the power of theatre. Graig's idea is brilliant, but I doubt Bev or her staff have the balls to stand tall like that. Which is why the odds will be heavily in favor of Art Pope owning the Governor's mansion as well as the General Assembly.
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.
I was thinking along these lines as well:
I also think bills the GOP doesn't "sneak" through, and that are allowed healthy debate, amendments heard on the floor, etc., should be less prone to Veto. If that kind of positive reinforcement opens the door to a better information environment, it's worth it.
I know some reading this might say, "It won't matter."
But information always matters, even if it merely exposes how people ignore it.
Well, it looks like
our 25% conservative readership hasn't dropped off severely since the election. I can only assume that 17% "None of them" in the poll are mostly the same peeps.
I just don't know if I'm glad or sad about that. I mean, I'd rather they read BlueNC than the National Enquirer, professional wrestling magazines or the Anarchist's Cookbook. But somebody's been spitting Red Man into whatever marginally concave container they can find, and that's just nasty.
Don't look at me like that. You know it's funny.
I haven't linked to the Show in what seems like years
NObody reads their crap anymore, which is why they have an army of Puppets hand-delivering it to the General Assembly on Pope's nickle. If they had to rely on the so-called grass roots for support, funding, traction, or whatever, they wouldn't exist.
If you want to draw them in, it's a piece of cake. Just toss a few verbal hand-grenades in John Hood's direction. His ego is so large that he has to read what you write, sort of like people who rubberneck at fatal accidents. That's because he thinks his ideas actually matter.
Without Pope's money, old' John would be just another tap-dancing clown looking for a handout.
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.
Yeah, that new weekly
e-mail thingie is definitely proof they're losing their audience.
BTW, John knows most of his stuff is bullshit, which is why he avoids media venues that allow reader commentary.
So long as she vetoes the
So long as she vetoes the Voter ID bill, I'm fine if she signs everything else that comes to her desk. Anything else can be fixed when Democrats take back the GA but if this bill passes, Democrats won't be taking anything back for quite some time...
Nathan Westmoreland
President - UNC-CH Young Democrats
I agree that Photo Voter ID is a top priority for veto, in fact
there is a committee meeting that's open to the public happening on Wed March 30th at 1 pm that will probably last just under an hour, where they are going to be discussing this bill in room 643 in the legislative office building. Its a good chance for anyone who wants to go learn about it, or show your opposition to the bill.
I wonder what veto number is
I wonder what veto number is best for Gov Perdue's reelection? All?
More than half will do.
n/t
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.