Just Don't Call Me a Moderate...

I am not nor have I ever been a moderate. On my eighteenth birthday I went out and registered to vote as a Democrat. It wasn’t an easy choice at the time but I felt making a choice was better than not.

I’ve never had a lot of patience for people who complain about how they’re left out by the party system or how partisanship doesn’t work; coincidentally these people tend to be apathetic, uninformed, and generally looking to rationalize their laziness. What’s worse is the registered independent that has pretensions of being the Jeffersonian ideal, sitting back at the plantation, sipping some vintage, and carefully considering the candidates and the issues. In reality they’re probably the most misinformed and least likely to use any form of reason in making their decision-making. And beware the college student who decries that their views are too complex to fit fully with one party or the other. Our republic has stood for over 200 years; you didn’t learn that much in your Intro to American Government class. You’re not the first person to face this problem but the rest of us didn’t shirk our responsibility. Being a moderate in this sense is all about one thing, moderation. While most things are good in moderation, politics is the exception that proves the rule; doing things halfway will get nowhere.

Then there are the centrists, to quote R. J. Vincent, “In criticizing the excesses of left and right, it marks out no position of principle between them, but shirks merely to what happens to be the mid-point in the current debate. Therefore, to be in the centre is not to be apolitical, but to have one’s political position determined by others.” These are the even lower form of life. Worse than having some pitiful convictions as a moderate, they have no conviction and simply place themselves where opportune at the time, and what’s worse try to tell us that they’re ‘above politics’. This is the type of political centrist I fear is the ruin of public discourse in our society.

The problem is not being in the middle, the problem is that one fails to “mark out a position of principle”, and it is not just limited to the center. I don’t really like moderates or centrists as I’ve described them, that’s not to say anyone who isn’t at the extreme is as I described them.

In the end the principle position is what’s important to me. Not doing some political calculus to figure out the biggest tent I can. If anything Grover Norquist’s quote about Heath Shuler encapsulates the preposterousness of the current Republican Party better than I could ever hope to. On the one hand he suggests fiscal conservatism as the true test of being a conservative; meanwhile the current Republican President has expanded the Government more than President Johnson and racked up record deficits. At the same time he demonstrates eloquently the superficiality and irrationality of the supposed ‘social conservatives’ upon which said President’s ‘success’ has depended. To his credit, Norquist does not even pretend he has anything in common with, much less have any respect for, the social conservatives upon which his party depends.

I try not to mistake people who try to emulate the end point as having the same starting point. At the end of the day it’s about who shares my core principles. Principles like but not limited to; the right to due process regardless of how heinous the accused crime, the importance of separation of powers, that men and women are endowed with inalienable rights, that no one will have all the answers all the time and there is a need for discourse, and that great power should be used both responsibly and with caution. Most importantly the principle that having principles matters, that’s what ultimately makes me a Democrat. Time and again the current crop of Republicans have shown that none of those principles, amongst others, matter to them. I’ll vote for Heath Shuler not because of his positions on Guns, Gays, Babies, War, Healthcare, Unions or OLF or even because it will make Nancy Pelosi Speaker, but because I know our fundamental principles that lead to those positions are ultimately the same or similar enough. Principles not issue checklists are ultimately what makes partisan politics work for me.

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Nicely said.

Principles not issue checklists are ultimately what makes partisan politics work for me.

Wow.

Excellent diary.

Draft Brad Miller -- NC Sen ActBlue :::Liddy 44 Brad 33

"Keep the Faith"

Very interesting hadrian,

the neat thing about being part of the Democratic Party is that you get to help shape policy from the grassroots. Independents don't really get that chance. While I've been tempted at times to renounce my lifelong party affiliation, mostly times when Democrats are acting too much like Republicans, I'm glad I now see what the party means to me.

NC Progressive Dems in particular is the greatest way for me to express my political will. As a group we may be faltering a bit in fits and starts but I am grateful for every member and think there are many Progressives in NC if only we could connect with them. Jerry Meeks is a terrific leader and I believe he was a product of the Progressives.

BTW, I'm working on getting a link to BlueNC put on the NC Progressive Democrats website.

Progressives are the true conservatives.

Thanks for the comments

The idea of what I call checklist voters is what has gotten us candidates like John Kerry and Hillary Clinton, if all Dems just did it by checklist those are the quality of candidates you're going to get every time because they're the least common denominator (by design), and I'm kinda sick of it. However I guess I differ from Robert in that I don't think it's just because they're not liberal enough, the problem is that people are starting with issues and working back to principles instead of the other way around. I realized also that including Grover, he of the drowning things in bathtubs, Norquist's quote might help even though its been all over the page this past week.

"Heath Shuler, who spoke recently about what a great conservative he is, just voted for a budget which guarantees a $3,000 increase per taxpayer on all of us for the next 10 years," Norquist said later during a panel discussion. "Thank you, conservative."

"But he is a member of the Blue Dogs, and he goes to church from time to time, so that should make up for it," Norquist added facetiously. "He likes his mother, and he doesn't like naughty language."

There is a place for moderates...

there just isn't any place for pandering to the right-wing and saying it is because you are "a moderate". That's my take. I think my gun control diary shows that in some respects I'm moderate, while in others I am very liberal. The reason, for me, is that I refuse to be hypocritical when it comes to issues of personal liberty and freedom.

One man with courage makes a majority.
- Andrew Jackson

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Don't call me one either

but I seem to be pegged one by default since I think most of the Dem's and Rep's in Washington are full of crap.

Being "above politics" depends on your definition of "politics." I am above the games played by the leadership on both sides. Does that make me a centrist? I can't even figure out what they even stand for besides keeping in power. I am expected to pick a side based on principle? I sure as heck want to. I thoght I had in my former days as a Rep, chosen on principle since I thought they better stood for smaller government and more fiscal responsibilty. That didn't work out so well.

I will vote on principle. I will act on principle. I will choose a party when they both appear to have some principles. Until then, I choose to affiliate myself with neither as choosing the lesser of two evils does not scream "principle." I am not scared to pick a side, but the sides I have to pick from scare me.

I responded to someone on DKos that said much the same.

I might not agree with all of what you stand for, but if you have thought out your beliefs and they fall into the middle of right and left, and you STICK with them, I have no problem with that. Really, what I have problem with is people pandering to the "middle" when they believe that liberal ideas are better. I believe universal health care would be better, which is why I dislike those who pander to the middle on "access". I believe public funding of elections COULD be better, which is why I dislike those who want to fix the overflowing toilets on the Titanic that is our current electoral process.

One man with courage makes a majority.
- Andrew Jackson

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Centrism

I'm not a scientist or statistician, but I recall a little bit from my high school and college days. For those of you who know all the right terms, please forgive me.

In many cases, I don't have terribly moderate views, but somehow I "average out" to be in the middle. The problem is the deviation. I am far right on some things and far left on others. I might not agree with someone who drives squarely down the middle of the road, but my "score" would lump me in with them.

For example:,
-I am against most gun control or ban proposals out there.
-I have no problem at all with state-sanctioned gay marriage
These "cancel each other out" and I end up in the middle even though individually one would consider me a right or left winger based on my stance.

Maybe you're a flip flopper

:)

Just kidding. But you might be a flop flipper.

haha!

that's funny....but you might be a flip-flopper....

Anyway, for SPLib, I think that you and I must only discuss issues we disagree on then, how about we have a chat sometime about something we agree upon!

One man with courage makes a majority.
- Andrew Jackson

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Perhaps I'm more passionate

Perhaps I'm more passionate about disagreements and therefore more motivated to post.

Supposedly, it makes me a

Supposedly, it makes me a libertarian (little "l")

When I take the political compass test, I usually come out as moderately left-leaning and moderately libertarian (much closer to the Dalai Lama than to GW Bush).

When I started writing at BlueNC

I was -3, -3.14 (I think...could have been reversed). I retook the test not long ago and am -4.38, -5.54. Damn....I think Robert's rubbed off on me. :)

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

whys it gotta be robert?

I think myself and WFC deserve much more of the blame credit

Draft Brad Miller -- NC Sen ActBlue :::Liddy 44 Brad 33

"Keep the Faith"

Trust me

it has been Robert. :)

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

I didn't think he talked to

I didn't think he talked to anyone further right than (-8) :-)

He had to talk to me

or I would have pulled the gender card. I was the lonely only xx for a very long time.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

Seriously though..

I have enjoyed participating on this site. It has been helpful to me in many ways.

I just realized this thinking about a few things; I have been moving to the left or perhaps merely realizing my leftitude for a while now. I was thinking about why this didn't happen before and I realized I felt so passionate about being a conservative (or so anti-way-left) because of my time as an undergrad at Chapel Hill. I'm not really sure I can do justice to how I saw liberal activism there, but the climate was, in my mind, a very poisonous mixture of naivete, new found freedom, and intolerance. I guess figured if I didn't like they way they did things I must be against them. You are either sucked in by them or completely alienated. Obviously, I was the latter.

The great thing about this site

is the discussion and thought that goes into most posts. Your posts, SPLib, have helped me clarify some of my feelings about gun control. I've actually learned quite a bit from you about that.
_____________
The Den
My darling girl, when will you understand that 'normal' isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage." - Alice Hoffman, Practical Magic

Shockingly, this thing puts me right where I belong.

Economic Left/Right: -8.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.54

I fall into the social libertarian, which fits with my ideals of personal liberty. And, a social leftist, which I think they put me a TAD too far to the left on that one, but not much. I'm a New Deal Democrat, and proud of it. I too am close to the Dali Lama, Ghandi, and Mandela.

One man with courage makes a majority.
- Andrew Jackson

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

-5.63, -5.18

I'm getting more moderate in my old age.

Hey...we could be twins

but not really.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

wow.

I don't know how to change the color of the type here, but I guess I'm a pinko.

Economic Left/Right: -8.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.85.

_____________
The Den
My darling girl, when will you understand that 'normal' isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage." - Alice Hoffman, Practical Magic

-7 and -5.64

where is the diary we did this before on, I don't remember my last score....have I changed?

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Just did mine...

Economic -7.5
Social lib/auth -6.36

Woo, I'm a pinko!

(I aten't ded.)

Been wondering where you been hiding

work keeping you busy?

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

I could fib...

Mostly it's the stuff I have to do once I get home that's keeping me preoccupied. Work isn't exactly taxing...

I could make interesting parallels with the 5-yr-future depicted in last week's episode of Heroes and the direction our government is heading, if you really wanted.

I knew

You werent quite a pinko

Economic Left/Right: -5.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.85

I find it interesting that all the political people they use as examples have positive scores on the Libertarian/Authoritarian scale. Except Mandela

Draft Brad Miller -- NC Sen ActBlue :::Liddy 44 Brad 33

"Keep the Faith"

I can't believe how conservative you all are...

Me:
Ecnomic Left/Right: -9.7
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.5

Since the Fall of '01 my numbers have been right about there, and I don't think that I have ever had a score of less than -8.5 on either axis....

CM

--
The Great appear great because we are on our knees – Let Us Rise!
-- “Big Jim” Larkin

The Great appear great because we are on our knees – Let Us Rise!
-- “Big Jim” Larkin

I'm jealous---I thought I was pinkest of the pinkos--o

Or is that pinkoes (too bad Dan Quayle doesn't post here)

Economic Left/Right: -8.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.18

Rock on Dalai Lama!

War is over if you want it.

War is over if you want it.

I thought I made that distinction pretty clear,

having a prinicpled position, is what matters to me and I think you will find most Democrats have them in their better moments (If you don't see it well, I don't know what else to tell you). Certainly my main point was that people in the middle of the political spectrum can have prinicpled positions, I guess our assessments of who those people are differs. I guess I disagree that Rep. Shuler was 'pandering to the right' and 'legitimizing civitas' if anything it gave us a great Grover Norquist quote that delegitimizes the right better than I've ever seen done even by those who are trying.

I Still Don't Know What This Means

that's probably a good thing.

Economic Left/Right: -8.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.72

That's because it means next to nothing.

If you take the one put forth by a libertarian group, most people end up being libertarian. On a republican site everyone is a republican, on a liberal site...you can bias the results based on how you choose and phrase the questions you ask in the survey. That's why the point of my post was we should focus on shared underlying philosophy and values, rather than just the fact that we agree on the endpoints of the handful of issues the media/politicans or quiz designers deem to be important. Focus on the means not just the ends.