Navy OLF Round Two

Submitted by parmea on Thu, 04/10/2008 - 4:37pm

The Navy on April 9, 2008 started the second NEPA process to determine were they should place a second OLF. This is a copy of the Notice of Intent found in the Federal Registry. This is the notification to the communities that the Navy is coming.

the Navy announces its intent to terminate the Draft SEIS for the Introduction of F/A-18E/F (Super Hornet) Aircraft to the East Coast of the United States (Construction and Operation of an Outlying Landing Field) and

Do not understand why the Navy wishes to terminate only the SEIS portion of this NEPA process.

This portion was the actual data and environmental consequences of constructing and operating an OLF at 5 sites in North Carolina that was poorly performed in the FEIS and requiring a Federal Judge to step in and say, Nope, your study was wrong, re do it.

prepare an EIS to evaluate potential environmental consequences of the construction and operation of an OLF at new alternative sites to support Field Carrier Landing Practice (FCLP) training requirements for carrier-based fixed-wing aircraft stationed at and transient to NAS Oceana and Naval Station (NS) Norfolk Chambers Field, Virginia.

Wait a second, didn't I just say that the SEIS was for that purpose? Nothing here is new. The old study incorporated all the planes from Chambers Field as well as Oceana. That is not new. The transiate planes do not require FCLP training. They just land at Oceana, fuel up, pilot might sleep, but nothing goes to Fentress.

So the Navy has a history of screwing up these NEPA processes. The first FEIS was so bad, that they had to redo the portion that demonstrated the impact to North Carolinians. The second try was the SEIS, it is so bad, the Navy just scrapped it. So Gates and Camden County, you guys will have the third study or review. Guess the Navy is hoping third times a charm.

The Navy proposes to construct an OLF that will support the FCLP operations of carrier-based fixed-wing aircraft squadrons stationed at and transient to NAS Oceana, Virginia Beach, Virginia (F/A-18C Hornet and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet squadrons and Fleet Replacement Squadrons (FRS)), and NS Norfolk Chambers Field, Norfolk, Virginia (E-2C Hawkeye, C-2A Greyhound, and E-2C/C-2A FRS). While NALF Fentress will continue providing necessary support for FCLP and other training requirements, this landing field alone cannot fully support training requirements of home-based and transient aircraft from NAS Oceana and NS Norfolk Chambers Field. Training requirements for aircraft based at these airfields can exceed NALF Fentress capacity up to 63% of the time during summertime when hours of darkness are limited. Capacity problems are further exacerbated when operational demands require surging additional carrier strike groups. A new OLF is required to provide year-round capacity to support FCLP training requirements under the Fleet Response Plan, provide operational flexibility needed to respond to emergent national defense requirements, and FCLP training consistent with at-sea operating conditions.

Interesting that this language was found in the SEIS. Well, except for the 63% number. Funny how the basic premise for this OLF is copied out of the SEIS that they Navy scrapped. Yea, new thorough study performed here.

this landing field alone cannot fully support training requirements of home-based and transient aircraft from NAS Oceana and NS Norfolk Chambers Field.

This landing field ALONE should not have to be the only field that performs this training. While the bulk of this training should be performed at this site, Oceana also has the responsibility to perform this training. That is why it is the Master Jet Base.

A new OLF is required to provide year-round capacity to support FCLP training requirements under the Fleet Response Plan, provide operational flexibility needed to respond to emergent national defense requirements,

HUMMM, these both say the same thing. Emergent national defense requirements trigger the FRP.

This plan is how the Navy surges to threats. This plan also requires the Admirals to be proactive in reviewing the world situation and ramp up training accordingly. It can be argued that under the FRP, the number of missions should actually go DOWN as the Navy will be on a higher alert or training footing. They should not be caught with their pants down and airwings not close to being ready. Just my opinion. If I were in charge of an air wing, I would be reading the paper and my daily intel reports and formulating contengency plans for getting my fleet underway. I would not wait and be in reaction mode.

and FCLP training consistent with at-sea operating conditions.

And how is Fentress and Oceana going to achieve this minor detail????? OOOO Navy, me thinks your plan has a few holes in it. Consistancy and fairness is not happening again.

Governor Easley, Lt. Gov. Perdue, Rep Butterfield, and W. Jones, Senators Burr and Dole, you let slip away the ability to stop these two counties from being studied.

Why are you requiring North Carolinians to have to fight our own US Navy?

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Here we go again.

Submitted by James on Thu, 04/10/2008 - 5:01pm.

More Navy incompetence being shoveled upon the good people of North Carolina.

Our representatives ... all of our representatives ... blew it again.

Parm, you research on this is both

Submitted by momoaizo on Thu, 04/10/2008 - 5:03pm.

interesting and informative. I, like James am so glad you're on our side!

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

After I am elected, I will work to put an end to the OLF issue..

Submitted by Marshall Adame on Fri, 04/11/2008 - 4:21pm.

In the meantime, I will stand with those who stand against this OLF boondoggle.

Marshall Adame

Awesome!

Submitted by parmea on Fri, 04/11/2008 - 5:27pm.

A representative that is not utilizing flowery words in attempt to stay on the fence. Put an end to the OLF issue. yea!

Now if you can get W. Jones to debate you on this and the Blackwater issue, you will sink Jones.

Gotta give credit where credit is due

Submitted by parmea on Fri, 04/11/2008 - 5:24pm.

Doles letter to Secretary Winters

I recently met with local elected officials from Camden. Currituck and Gates Counties, and I am relaying to you the considerable resistance these communities continue to have towards a potential outlying landing field (OLF).

As you know, my position on this issue is straightforward -- if the Navy wants to build an OLF in North Carolina, there absolutely must be broad local support for such a facility. At this point, however, it is abundantly clear that there is deep and growing opposition to an OLF at both proposed sites in northeastern North Carolina. In fact, there is greater local opposition than was the case several months ago.

Great job from the grass roots folks at Camden and Gates County! I went to the first rally in Gates County after the Navy announced Gates had two sites. It was awesome that the organizers had the high school bleachers on the HOME field side filled! The did this in 4 days! Good job on them. Camden County filled their high school cafiteria with their first meeting.

And they have gotten even more opposition!

That said, it is troubling that the Navy has not made clear what, if any, economic benefits an OLF would create for the affected area. I am frankly baffled that many months have passed since the new OLF sites were identified, but officials and residents in these counties have yet to hear any compelling reasons why they should accept this facility.

Like first prove a requirement, how will the Navy make Oceana a viable master jet base, and most important, why should Gates or Camden County have to forfeit one of their communities for this OLF.

I question whether it is prudent for the Navy to move forward with additional studies on these contested sites -- spending millions in taxpayer dollars and causing further emotional and financial tolls on the residents of northeastern North Carolina along the way. Bear in mind. North Carolinians vividly recall the several stressful years and several millions of dollars expended in studying the widely opposed Site C in Washington and Beaufort Counties.

About dam time the people who actually live at these sites are considered! SEVERAL STRESSFUL YEARS; EMOTIONAL TOLL ON THE RESIDENTS, son of a @#$@$!, someone is finally getting it. Thank you Senator Dole!

I fear that now we could be heading down the same road and allowing history to repeat itself. I fully understand that the Navy truly needs this facility, but I would respectfully offer that this process cannot and should not occur in a vacuum.

The only reason the Navy truly needs this facility is because Fentress cannot perform the mission properly. Fix that reason before requesting North Carolinians to host this OLF. Virginia politics and politicians caused this problem. They should have to fix the "truly need this facility" statement. The Navy truly needs this facility" (Fentress) to be fixed!

Dam, she nailed it again with the vacuum. Short of coming out and saying Navy, not in North Carolina, she effectively said that.

Senator Burr, Representative W. Jones and Butterfield, Governor Easley, Lt. Gov. Perdue, join Senator Dole in this opposition. Do not think of it as rallying to Senator Dole, thing of it as rallying to the aid of Camden, Gates and any potential county in our state that has to fight the US Navy for something that Virginia needs to fix.

Dole

Submitted by James on Fri, 04/11/2008 - 8:29pm.

Short of coming out and saying Navy, not in North Carolina, she effectively said that.

US Senators are the among the most powerful elected officials in the world. Liddy Dole had the opportunity to say, "I will not permit an OLF in either of these counties." But she didn't. She hedged and waffled. She's leaving herself some wiggle room.

After seven years, it is abundantly clear what the deal is with an OLF. Senator Dole should know there is no amount of economic development that would make it worth turning a North Carolina community into a 24/7 war zone. Why does she think they want to move the planes out of Virginia Beach?

BECAUSE PEOPLE HATE THESE DAMN PLANES AND THE NOISE AND DESTRUCTION THEY CREATE.

It's not freakin' rocket science, Liddy. Put a stop to this right here and now.

Yes, she is still making

Submitted by parmea on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 7:05am.

the region fight the Navy.

Speculation, she felt she could not oppose something that had not started? I do not know. But it is here now. It looks like maybe she is giving the Navy one last shot at convincing the local communities with some kind of incentive package. if that fails, then hopefully she steps in and says we have already been down this road. These two communities do not wish to host this OLF, stop it now. We do not need to go to the end of this process to determine no is the answer.

The road map is set with this letter. If the local communities and counties follows it, there should be no outcome other then the Navy leave these counties alone.

The rest of the NC delegation needs to be on this road map also.

If these two counties have to go down this road, then knowing at the end it will end positively is I guess the next best thing?

Why do we have to play games like this, especially with so many people involved? But I guess this is the game we are all in. I guess in the game of politics, someone who stands their ground gets squashed. Digging your heels in only enables others to attack you for what ever reason.

W.P. Jones talks to the little people

Submitted by parmea on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 8:39am.

At a town hall meeting W. Jones, representative of the minions, discussed the OLF.

Sunday, April 13, 2008

MOYOCK — U.S. Rep. Walter B. Jones said Saturday that he continues to oppose Navy plans to study a site in Camden for a jet airfield. The congressman also said he doesn't think the county site will be seriously considered for the project.

AHHHHHHHHHHH, Mr. Jones, the Navy spent 7 years trying to convince NE NC to allow them to place this OLF here. Yes, they are serious about placing an OLF somewhere. Unless you know something the minions do not, each of these sites has a 20% chance of getting it. Because the Navy is already talking to two conservation groups in NC for one of the sites, it would appear that the % is even higher. 40% chance for a NC site is not good odds.

However, Jones declined to commit now to opposing federal funding for the OLF if the Camden site is ultimately selected.

"There will come a time for that discussion, absolutely, and at that time I will do what I need to do to protect the area. Let's leave it at that," Jones, R-N.C., said in response to a question during a town hall meeting at Moyock Elementary School Saturday.

Thanks for the pat on the head, some warm milk and being tucked into bed. Mr. Jones, the freaking furnace is still not putting out heat, and we are cold! Lets leave it at that!

No Mr. Jones, the Time is NOW to let us know how you intend to protect the region. You have had way to much time to determine your strategy.

But Jones also doesn't believe the Navy's planned 30-month study will result in either the Camden site or a site in neighboring Gates County being chosen for the OLF.

"I just don't think that when it's all said and done that (the sites in) Camden and Gates counties are going to be in the top two," Jones said.

Facts, figures, anything? Explain this? If we are not going to be the top two, why are we here in the first place?

Why are you allowing the region to have to endure this process all over again?

Jones advised the 140 residents in attendance at Saturday's meeting at the Moyock school gym that they need to step up their own opposition efforts if they want to keep the OLF out of North Carolina. He said residents need to regard the OLF as a "baby snake" that needs killing now before it grows into a snake big enough to threaten them. The way to do that, he suggested, is to continue lobbying lawmakers and Gov. Mike Easley to fight the OLF.

AHH, Mr. Jones, aint you a lawmaker? What you basically stated was we have not convinced you that their is a baby snake in our midst for you to kill it. Is that OLF proposal a worm? a figment of our imagination?

Juanita Krause, an organizer with North Carolinians Opposed to the Outlying Landing Field, asked Jones if there was any way to stop the Navy's environmental impact study now, before it even gets started. She said the fact that the study is taking place is already affecting the real estate markets in Currituck and Camden.

Jones said he would need more information to give a definitive answer, but he believes the EIS studies of all five sites will have to go forward.

Wonder where Wally was when Washington/Beaufort Counties were being impacted down this similar question, possibly his own little World? Wally World?

Another anti-OLF group member, Deborah Cavalcante, asked if Jones would commit to deny the OLF project funding if Camden is chosen as the site.

Jones replied that it is too early to take that course of action.

"There's a strategy that you need to use," he told Cavalcante. "Don't show all your cards on day one. .... That's why I think right now that plan A should be to get the political leaders involved."

You should be engaged now. This tells me you do not believe your minions. You have stated right here that you will not get involved. Not sure what else is more pressing in NC-3, but according to this commit, it dang sure aint fighting the OLF. When Rep Price, NOT OF NC-1 or NC-3 terminated the funding for this project, it was over. done. fina. the fat lady sang.

Mr. Jones, you should be rallying the North Carolina delegation to include talking with Governor Easley on opposing this OLF. Of constantly telling the Navy, no thank you, NE NC is not the place to go. You should be working behind the scenes with Gov Easley explaining in very simple terms that NE NC does not want this. Are YOU? That is what we of the region are asking. To stand up and represent us. To take on this fight.

To stop it now. I know its a stretch, but you and Rep. Butterfield need to stand up on a stage some place and declare to the Navy and the region that an OLF anywhere in NE NC is not welcome and the area will not be considered for an OLF if the local community does not have broad local support. Senator Dole has made that her stand. As one, the two of you should be all over Gov Easley pressuring him to tell the Navy NO OLF in North Carolina. While you cannot make this go away, Gov Easley can. This is his state. All he has to do is say NO OLF, and you guys back him. Very simple.

BROAD LOCAL SUPPORT. Does Camden or Gates County have broad local support? Come on, wally, you know the answer. say it. Ill give you a cookie. some warm milk? Two cookies.

NO.

Represent us.

Walter J and the OLFs

Submitted by bradford on Mon, 04/14/2008 - 5:26am.

Thanks, Parmea. Could you please email me brad.adameforcongress@yahoo.com or brad@marshalladame4congress2008.com with the name of the newspaper in which the Jones story appeared. I need to prepare a news release for Marshall Adame in response to WBJr's waffling remarks...Thanks. As everyone saw by Marshall's response to the post, he's not on any fence on this issue, and we want to get the word out more widely,

bradford

bradford

Sure, but I linked the source

Submitted by parmea on Mon, 04/14/2008 - 4:06pm.

so people do not have to hunt for it. Daily Advance apr 13, 2008.

Walter Jones insulted the intelligence of these citizens

Submitted by Marshall Adame on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 9:31pm.

He would not take any stand whatever.

When asked if he was willing to assist in stopping funding for the OLF, he said he didn't want to show his cards??? Is this some sort of game to him. The lifestyle, livlihood, culture, property , history and ecology of Camdin and Currituck are in the balance and he still will not commit to helping his constituants.... I don't get it.

What is Walter hiding that he cannot commit to his own constituants?

When I am the NC 3rd District Congressman I will:
1. Do everything a Congressman can do to STOP any additional OLF in North Carolina; Anywhere in North Carolina.

2. Find any and all connections there are between any OLF and Blackwater in North Carolina, or anywhere in America.

3. I will publically challenge and urge every NC Representative and Senator to publically take a position on Blackwater (and other organizations like that), and OLFs in NC.

Marshall Adame

Interesting thoughts from one of the senior Navy officers

Submitted by parmea on Thu, 04/17/2008 - 8:26pm.

Navy officer predicts change of heart on OLF

The title says it all.

“It's no longer just an encroachment issue,” he said. “It's a capacity issue.”

One thing that has not changed in that period, he said, is the Navy's determination to find a place to satisfy its needs for safely training its pilots.

“This is a valid requirement, not just for the Navy but for the nation,” he said of the OLF. “The future viability of Oceana hinges on finding this OLF.”

Adm. Anderson, what are you going to do about the encroachment issues found at your military installations that require you to make a comment about finding a place to safely train our pilots. The viability of Oceana hinges on correcting this encroachment first. Without doing that, 15 OLFs will not make Oceana a safe place to fly. It is not safe for our pilots, or for the civilians on the ground. Adm. Anderson has just solidified the case that Oceana is not a viable master jet base and should have the planes relocated someplace else.

The Navy, Virginia, nor the Government can afford to make Oceana a viable master jet base. To many people and businesses are there now.

Rear Adm. David Anderson believes that by the end of the Navy's environmental review of five sites under consideration for the proposed outlying landing field, some of the host counties will actually be competing with each other for the chance to host the controversial training facility.

No, I did not write that, I did not even think this, what the heck could the Navy possibly offer Gates or Camden County to swing to this mode?

The Navy's operational needs have changed, its readiness requirements have increased and Chesapeake's Fentress Naval Auxiliary Landing Field has become more congested with pilots training to land on aircraft carriers.

Really? sounds like the Navy is flying its butt off. This should indicate that the budget for the Navy just in JP-5 should be through the roof. OOOO wait, how is the Navy qualifying their pilots right now? The George Washington just took off to go to Japan. The training squadrons have been training. How did the Navy do all that without this second OLF being built? Anyone near Cherry Point see any rogue F/A-18s flying around doing FCLP missions? A lot of them? Any of them?

O wait, when you go from 16%/year utilization to what ever they came up with now, yea, I guess your congestion has increased. Ok, I will give em double or 100% increase, 32% utilization of Fentress / year.

Still not a capacity issue but an accepted Navy issue of encroachment. Navy, before coming to North Carolina, please fix the encroachment around Oceana and Fentress, you have 33,000 people right now you should be condemning due to encroachment causing incompatibility issues between safety and pilot training.

Where is the record of decision showing the Navy is correcting this problem and condemning those people?