Saddlecrack Pastor Picked
Submitted by lomaprietaleigh on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 12:00pm
It was announced this week that Rick Warren, pastor of the famed Saddlecrack Churches of Southern California, will give the invocation on January 20th for Barack Obama's Inauguration. Warren is author of the bestselling Purpose Driven Life.
Everywhere I turn, people I respect are expressing disgust, disappointment and outrage.
What do you think?
cross-posted at A Smut-Filled Tome
- lomaprietaleigh's blog
- 953 reads
I'm trying to understand.
I suppose it's Obama reaching out to more conservative constituents. I have no problem personally with Rick Warren, I guess, but it's just a surprise to me. I don't know who I'd have liked for him to choose instead. Maybe Starhawk?
Starhawk
would be a nice choice.
Yep.
But it would never happen.
By the way...
Could that picture be any more pretentious? Jeebus.
In my world (and my after life world)
humans that call themselves preachers, messengers of God, whatever/etc. are judged more harshly than the rest of us mere humans.
All I can do is hope.....
What picture?
I don't see one anywhere? Is it on a link?
I'm a moderate Democrat.
It's at the top of the post.
I don't know why you can't see it. Hmm.
Old equipment I guess. It's
Old equipment I guess. It's right there now that I'm on a different computer.
I'm a moderate Democrat.
I agree
Do you think Obama actually had this made?
Or, was this more of the supporter-based work that was done? Little difference. BTW, I resized your image, try not to break our site in your hurry to be a jerk.
Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me
Pictures of Obama
Well, it should be born in mind that LB' *ssholery has an upside here (eww, scratch that).
That is to say that I love those pictures.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
Simple
A gratuitous slap at someone not Obama by an Obama supporter deserves a reciprocal slap pointing out the hypocrisy.
Not sorry if it torques your knickers.
Has that "buyer's regret" kick in yet?
Every time someone like you two calls me a jerk or an asshole (not *sshole you wuss) it makes me smile.
And we love to make you smile
Asshole.
Source this
"... a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama"
Obama supporters have no business mocking Warren's photo.
I know you're so disappointed that Obama didn't un-repudiate Wright, his pastor of 20 years, and have him give the invocation. I know you were looking forward to hearing "God damn America" during the inauguration. So sorry.
(I can't wait for the next hypocritical lecture about civility on this site.)
Hey, you're the one who invited it
I haven't said asshole to anyone in a long, long time. And wouldn't have done it here except for your invitation about how it makes you happy.
I appreciate hearing from you in general, though. It's instructive to learn what you think I think. Your guesses are rarely accurate, of course, but they are nonetheless interesting.
Tiny Unicorns
this picture of Warren reminds me of the scene in Napoleon Dynamite when the female lead (I can't remember her name) who creates vanity-type shots in a photographer's studio instructs her subject to imagine the air around him filled with tiny unicorns.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
I love this.
Tiny Unicorns. Hee.
Jesus would not be happy with Rick Warren
Not the Jesus I knew, anyway.
Speakin' of Jesus
I wonder how Jesus would feel about people telling others how Jesus would feel.
(Miss me?)
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
Jesus would love it.
Jesus is a good guy that way.
Yes, of course we've missed you.
WWJD? :)
wwjd
I think Jesus would be thrilled. But he would try not to show it. He's modest that way. I missed you! lol
Leigh
A Smut-Filled Tome
Just posted a vid from Politico
on Obama's answer to this question over on another thread.
Is it just me, or does the "Saddlecrack" thing
seem like a Freudian slip?
Methinks he doth protest homosexuality too much...
Most do
Steve, is 'Saddlecrack' a play on words or just a typo? I thought the church name was Saddleback as in Brokeback....
Brokeback Mtn.
I love that movie. Do you reckon Pastor Warren saw it?
Leigh
A Smut-Filled Tome
PASTOR " BULL" WARREN! action! lights, sound!
I love that movie. Do you reckon Pastor Warren saw it?* lomaprietaleigh
Yep! Brother Warren saw the movie when it had it's grand opening in San Francisco at the "Horses" Bath House. In fact brother Warren play the part of a female Bull in the Background shots of the grazing scenes......A couple of those shots were remove from the movie when the movie director shouted action and Brother Warren mounted a whole herd of Male Bulls.. Brother Warren is now considering a new Brokenback Mountian movie since one of the stars pass on and is thinking of being one of the main actors as a wandering bull of the old west who was cast out by a tribe or herd of straight Bisons........
Yep
'Nuff said.
The best thinking is independent thinking.
omg..
yikes!
Leigh
A Smut-Filled Tome
Oh, it's "Saddleback"...
It's still a butt reference, though...
I am outraged!
Who would have guessed an innocent typo would have resulted in such outrageous comments. Ok, so maybe it wasn't so innocent. I love you guys! lol
Leigh
A Smut-Filled Tome
I do feel a little guilty
making humorous references about homosexuality, but that damned picture is killing me. If he is harboring any secret desires, he needs to listen to that inner voice. And he needs to listen to that inner fashion voice, too...
It's just a damned funny picture.
I keep looking at it and making little fart noises at him. I don't know why I feel compelled to this infantile behavior -- the picture just invites it.
:) Sorry.
Yeah, I think the waves behind him
are moving backwards from the blast. :)
It is a funny picture, and the symbolism he's trying to pull off makes it even funnier. Like...is the fact that he's standing on the edge of a turbulent sea (with bible in hand) supposed to represent that he can guide you over troubled waters? Or part them for you maybe, ala Moses? And it appears he's (supposed to be) looking at God, but he's actually looking almost directly at the sun. So does he secretly worship Rah, the Sun God?
But you know, I don't have any business cracking on somebody for stupid poses in photos. One of the reasons I don't post pics of myself is because I'm an idiot. Take this one of me and my daughter backstage at a fashion show:
Talk about symbolism, jeez...
Your daughter is beautiful
And you're a lovely dork. :)
Thanks. :)
She's my baby, and always will be.
I just remembered something (else) funny about this. After this pic was taken, I went back to where my ex and one of her girlfriends were watching the show (we get along pretty good, most of the time), and both of them kept laughing at me. Finally I said, "Okay, what's the joke?"
"Nothing, we're just a little tipsy from the wine."
Later on, as I was leaving, I kept getting looks and smiles from quite a few ladies. Which (of course) I attributed to my dashing good-looks. Then I hit the bathroom before the drive home, and saw this huge red lipstick kiss on my cheek....
He's fair game, right?
Look...on a lib/dem blog, anything about some conservative right wing preacher should be fair game.
No need to feel guilty. It's what you guys do.
I'm a bit troubled by the little homosexual joke reference, though. You all DO support gays and lesbians, don't ya?
The best thinking is independent thinking.
and transgendered folks, too.
:)
we support them--
and we are them (glbt).
Leigh
A Smut-Filled Tome
Funny
A white guy says something negative about an African American. A straight guy says something negative about a gay man or a lesbian woman. It's a major issue.
A black guy calls another black guy the "N" word and a liberal makes a joke about some conserverative/republican looking/acting gay...and, well, not a problem.
Ever notice?
The best thinking is independent thinking.
It is a problem.
It's a big problem. I won't speak to African American issues; I'm not African American. I can speak to GLBT issues, and I'm telling you right now that it pisses me off just as much as you might think. I wind up letting it slide because the names don't matter as much as the issues, and I know that the men who are joking about Brokeback Mtn. now are the same men who support equal rights for everyone.
It is Pastor Warren who doesn't support equal rights. It is the majority of conservative Americans who don't support equal rights. So I have more of an issue with people who don't support equal rights and say ugly things about me, my friends and my family than I do with people who support me, my friends, and my family and occasionally make a joke. I make the jokes, too, though not usually in writing. (Most of my jokes are really lame, anyhow.)
Really Rick Warren is not
Really Rick Warren is not some kook. No he doesn't support gay marriage but then a majority of the nation doesn't support gay marriage. I don't support Gay marriage and I'm not a conservative. I can go along with civil unions. Hey if I'm not mistaken Obama doesn't support gay marriage. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. Warren is a good man. A Purpose Driven Life is a very inspiring book. It was used by my congregation several years ago and led to a great increase in volunteer work. We can't all agree on every issue and an effort to vilify Warren is wrong headed and counter productive.
I'm a moderate Democrat.
Rick Warren is a kook
He equates homosexuality with incest and bestiality. That's kookiness right there.
I understand the politics behind the nod to Warren (meaningless symbolic triangulation), but I still find it offensive.
If Obama wants to demonstrate inclusiveness - or disagree without being disagreeable as he put it - let's have the Grand Wizard of the KKK on stage with "Pastor" Warren. I mean, we need inclusiveness of divergent viewpoints, right?
Did I say something offensive? KKK? So, sorry. Guess we'll have to "agree to disagree" Mr. Obama.
Don't be afraid to say what
Don't be afraid to say what you really think! Well while I agree that including incest and bestiality in his comments were kind of hamhanded I don't think the intend was to equate it to those two. While most everyone have family or friends that happen to be homosexual, most people have little contact with the GLTG (is that right? Gay Lesbian and Transgender) community and the issues that are important to them. As a result we tend to kind of screw up a lot when discussing these issues. (as I'm sure I'm doing now) One thing is certain, and that is the traditional interpretation of the bible verses related to homosexuality indicate that it is not exceptable. I have read an interpretaton of those verses that says they are really referring to casual and group type relationships not specifically homosexual relationships. I tend to figure I'm too stupid to understand it all and my best bet is to not judge other people. Warren (as far as I can tell) is a man of great faith and to expect him to deviate from traditional interpretations of the bible would be unrealistic. I think that rather than vilifying him those that would like to see him have a greater understanding of the issues important to them would be better served by attempting to develop a working relationship with him and his very worthy programs that both have in common. Just the take from an old boring straight white guy that goes to a Southern Baptist Church. :)
I'm a moderate Democrat.
Gay Rights and Human Rights
are not the same. I think equating the lack of gay marriage rights to slavery, civil rights, or the struggle for suffrage, hurts the cause for gay equality.
they are simply not the same. There are loopholes to get around property inheritance and such.
Yes, they are not exactly what married couples have, but it is not equal to being property, segregation, or not being able to vote and hold office.
It is just disrespectful to many, and does not win supporters to the cause.
Thanks for emphasizing that gays aren't humans
Voting rights? Gays were assumed to be felons (in NC) until this decade. The specter of being a felon cast a pall over every openly LGBT person courageous enough to be in public life. Hear of Lawrence v. Texas?
The unconstitutional crimes again nature law is still on NC's books. A man was arrested in Raleigh LAST YEAR in his own home for violating this idiotic law - and had to spend over four hundred dollars to get out of jail and have the DA toss the case. Not solicitation or anything, just plain ol' crimes against cost the citizen $400 for no damn reason.
Loopholes to get around inheritance rights costs thousands in attorney fees.
How about having to declare your partner's heath insurance as taxable income - IF you can even get insurance for your partner? That's a key thing that married straights take for granted and costs thousands of dollars for gay couples each year. No loophole around that.
Thanks again for telling me what's disrespectful - your assumptions about the current state of affairs for LGBT folks or comparisons to the past.
Today matters more than yesterday, and tomorrow matters more than today. While you're spouting off about the past, educate yourself about today.
Gays are Human, but not a human race in themselves
Is there a case of someone being arrested for being gay? Lawrence v. Texas was about unmarried relations and never made it past common law, right? Where is this Raleigh person and why doesn’t a trial lawyer pick up the case for pay? It would be settled as quick as the prosecutor dropped it.
The loophole is in a will. Health insurance for spouses is meant for raising children and stay at home spouses.
I have no disrespect for gay individuals. But, I know it is not something accepted by most Americans, today, and tomorrow.
I am against gay discrimination, and so is the law. But, equaling gay marriage to that of a man and a woman, is something only a few will accept-and it would be suicide for a political candidate who ran for state or national office.
Being gay does not automatically ensure rights to marriage, I’m sorry…Obama would agree, and so would CA.
not really
"I am against gay discrimination, and so is the law."
Actually, the law is very clearly not against discrimination. Not even on the issue of marriage, but what about adoptions? and "dont ask dont tell"? and a whole host of other issues.
And, while you might be right that most Americans would be against marriage equality, how many would say that its ok for people not to be able to do something so simple as to visit their loved one in the hospital?
"Keep the Faith"
Don't ask/don't tell
I fully support gay/lesbian rights but at the same time am against gays serving openly in the military. Yeah, I know that sounds a bit odd, but I have a number of reasons I believe that.
Maybe it could be a subject of another thread.
The best thinking is independent thinking.
I fully support
...your right to speak freely, but will threaten to kill you or your eternal soul if I disagree with your speech.
Make any sense? Didn't think so.
That that what I think?
Is your post saying that "hey, if you support gay/lesbian rights", you should support EVERYTHING with regard to the "rights"...and not have the exception of serving openly in the military?
If so...yes, I understand why you question me on this.
The best thinking is independent thinking.
No you dont
Look just saying it doesnt make it true. If you support the LGBT community having equal rights then you would be in favor of giving them the exact same rights as everyone else. But you don't support them having equal rights.
That's within your rights as an American, but it doesn't make it right.
"Keep the Faith"
Hmmmmm......
There are exceptions to every rule/situation/right/etc.
But, as you said, that's within my right as an American to believe as I do about this one specific issue with regard to gays/lesbians.
By your definition of supporting equal rights for gays/lesbians then, Obama also doesn't support them having equal rights either since he doesn't support their "unions" as being identified as "marriage".
The best thinking is independent thinking.
Yes
Obama does not believe in full and equal rights for gays and lesbians.
"Keep the Faith"
"I am against gay
"I am against gay discrimination, and so is the law."
speaking about being gay and in the workplace.
"dont ask dont tell" allows gays to serve without interrogation and discrimination; do they WANT their peers and superiors to know they are gay? Does this help them?
Think about it for a minute.
Would you want to have to pretend to be gay?
How many people have pictures of their family in their offices? If you are in a same-gender relationship, you would have the same desire to put up pictures of your spouse/loved one. But if your boss could fire you because of that, would you put it up?
No one really wants to pretend to be someone or something they aren't.
That's beside the point
Look, Linda, what you're saying is really kind of simple. There is sooo much more involved in gays serving "openly" in the armed forces than what you're presenting here. Don't you wonder why so many of the the leadership in the military is against gays serving openly? Yeah, I know you can site some exceptions with regard to military leaders..mostly ex-military leaders...that disagree with this. But, truth is, a huge number of folks that serve in the military and actually lead our military has a problem with this.
One thing we don't want is to have a military that has gays joining for the purpose of "meeting" other gays. What would happen to our defense force if gay men were there because they wanted to be in an environment where there was a lot of other gay men to "meet"?
And, what of the heterosexual guys/gals that were asked to take showers with all the guys/gals they were stationed with? I mean, if I'm a straight guy and went to take a shower, do I have to "hide" my package from the gay guys that want to see that? Do I have a problem with that...and those guys?
This is just one of many problems that would be involved in this.
We could argue it until the end of time and not come to an agreement. Keeping the "don't tell" policy is a good thing with regard to the military in my opinion. I know the left and those here (which seems to be in great numbers) that are gay won't agree with this.
The best thinking is independent thinking.
I appreciate your earnest attempt, but it misses the point
My ire is directed at Obama and his advisors who knew exactly what he/they were doing. I expect more from Obama and his team who faced this issue in the primary and know better.
The letters you refer to are LGBT or GLBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender). Again, I truly appreciate your attempt to understand.
However, my humanity is not debatable. This is not a discussion about percentages of marginal tax rates.
I don't care what anyone's beliefs tell them. Using religion to cloak fear mongering in an attempt to build an empire (Rick Warren) ain't Christian, and it ain't American.
Do you promote your faith as mere fire insurance? Faith is not fear - regarding LGBT matters or any other.
And take that from a born and raised Southern Baptist from the NC foothills who knows exactly where Montreat is.
Civil unions
I believe that the vast majority of Americans on BOTH sides of the political spectrum support equality for gays and lesbians. Yeah, there are kooks out there that just don't get it and still believe that being gay is something you actually choose to be rather than something you're born to be....but it's a minority.
What many people have a problem with is identifying the union between gays and lesbians as "marriage". It's the word...the definition of the word...that is the problem with most folks.
The best thinking is independent thinking.
That's because they no longer
"It's the word...the definition of the word...that is the problem with most folks."
really grasp the definition of the word anymore. So many folks nowadays view marriage as some kind of "necessary burden" that they must carry, sacrificing their freedom for some future goal. Or they do it because they fear freedom, and move right from one nest to another.
Being single (divorced), I am constantly observing married couples to get some idea of how much happiness I'm missing. Judging from from what I've witnessed, I don't appear to be missing much. For a few years after my marriage came apart, I found some comfort in this. Now it's just depressing. And watching the children trudge through that ice-storm breaks my heart.
If marriage was already well-defined, we wouldn't have over 40% divorce rate for first marriages, and something like 65% for second marriages. I think part of the fear that heterosexuals have over same-sex marriage is kind of sports-related: if the new team in the league ends up with a better win/loss/draw record, the old team loses a lot of its prestige and support from fans.
Well you could look at it
Well you could look at it this way, 60% of all frist marriages succeed! And that 40% that don't succeed that first time and try it again see about 35% that finally get it right. That's pretty good! Question, if civil unions grant equal protection and benefit under the law to marriage do we then have equality? I always thought of the actual marriage as being a religious observation. Maybe we could solve this issue by separating the religious from the civil in marriage so that we heterosexuals have to attain the two separately not all in one. Then anyone male/female, male/male, female/female could get a civil union and then go to the church of their choice for a "marriage" as deemed appropriate by their particular denomination. Am I crazy or wouldn't this work for everybody?
I'm a moderate Democrat.
I think it would work,
but I'm not sure if it would be an "easier" solution.
In order for it to work, the civil union would have to be treated the same way in all states. So if a same-sex couple from Massachusetts went on vacation to Myrtle Beach, and one of them had a stroke or was bitten by a shark (I just watched Anderson Cooper swimming with sharks the other day, so it's on my mind), there wouldn't be any difference in the way the uninjured spouse was viewed by the hospital staff. Or any number of other legal scenarios in a state-to-state basis.
Even though the idea of civil unions is less unpopular than same-sex marriage, the odds of all states agreeing to civil unions and enacting even remotely similar laws are about as strong as winning the lottery. So it would have to come in the form of a Federal mandate, which would require a strong civil rights argument to bring about, which is an argument only a handful in Congress want to engage in.
Which is why Obama's choice to deliver the invocation is such a pisser, because it reveals that our new President doesn't believe there's a civil rights issue at stake either.
That is a bit of a reach, Huh
Um...you've reached WAY down in the barrel to come up with a way not to accept most folks not wanting marriage to mean anything other than a union between a man and a woman.
Hey, if it's any consolation for you...if things in the U.S. continue to move left, in no time at all "marriage" will be accepted for just about ANY union between human beings.
I'm not sure how old you are, but I can imagine what kind of reception this entire subject would have had 25 years ago....let alone 40 years ago. You and I BOTH would probably have been burned at the stake (figure of speech) just for discussing it.
The best thinking is independent thinking.
I was just shooting from the
I was just shooting from the hip. I'm always trying to find the middle ground, keep everybody happy. You know that more often than not just makes both sides unhappy or is totally not practical. Bottom line is that this isn't an issue that is high on my priority list, and it's tough when you feel like you have to have a position on every issue. That's why I don't plan on running for office!
I'm a moderate Democrat.
Yeah, I understand that !
I think I "shoot from the hip" a little too much here also, Huh. I jumped on Betty Muse and I've jumped on Linda for some of their posts and really shouldn't have but get caught up in the issue, as you do sometimes.
I'm tryin' to do better, though :-)
The best thinking is independent thinking.
It's okay, Smitty.
As you see, we jump right back. No harm, no foul.
What she said
Truth is, we like having your around.
Happy holidaze!
Pretention, Thy Name Is Rick Warren
Hmm.. I wonder where he is...
Furor over Obama's Megachurch preacher is so last April
n/t
So how long do you think that it will take for Obama to
repudiate Warren and uninvite him from the inauguration? He uninvited Wright from his announcement to run.
Southern christian demos won't accept that
Um...if all of a sudden, because of some pressure, Obama doesn't let Warren give the invocation at the inauguration...that would look like he's telling the Southern conservs to shove it.
He's not gonna do that. Take that to the bank.
All of this is just spin...bunk...something for news media sources to go "National Enquirer" on us.
The best thinking is independent thinking.
Probably won't happen, but not because of political reasons
You'll have to admit that Warren can't bring on the crazy like Wright did.
In either case, I fail to see what the fuss is about.
It's a different kind of crazy.
I don't really too much of a problem with Warren being there, as long as there are others as well, which there will be. I just think he's pompous, self-righteous, pretentious s.o.b. But you know, I think that about a lot of "public figures."
Maybe he is pompous,
Maybe he is pompous, self-righteous and pretentious Linda, I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. But I can tell you that A Purpose Driven Life had a profound positive effect on a lot of peoples' lives. A lot of churches participated in his program that revolved around the book including mine. It created a lot of good, brought a lot of people to a point in their lives where they began to make a difference in a lot of lives. So the man for all his faults, percieved or actual, has done a lot of good in this world. I hope we can balance that with the current controversy.
I'm a moderate Democrat.
Sure
I get that. I know a lot of people who have found "A Purpose Driven Life" to be a very helpful book, and I don't mean to take away from that. Whatever helps you through life is a good thing.
Mostly.
If that good thing has a subliminal anti-human rights agenda, then I worry that the people who have read and followed this book will accept Warren's opinions as something close to truth. I worked with several women who said "Pastor Warren said. . . " when asked about their own beliefs.
And no, I don't think that everyone who read the book or listens to Warren believes everything that he believes.
In the grand scheme of things, Warren giving an invocation at Obama' Inauguration is a small thing to me, and I am a member of the LGBT demographic. Many of my "comrades" have worked themselves up into a lather. I think this is a distraction to the actual work that needs to be done in this country -- which is to extend the same rights to all.
check it.
http://witwirw.wordpress.com/
Obama Out Foxing Fox News
I think Obama is being very strategic by having the GOP-ers now wanting to be aligned/associated with him. I believe he has a long view plan with this move.
This will give him leverage, it will stengthen the Dem Party as we win more seats on a local level. The Right will not be able to play the "boogie man" game. With more Dems on a local level, the more likely Gay Rights will be able to advance. As a married Irish Catholic mother of 2, I am sadden by Prop 8. Gay Rights does not threaten my marriage - Angelina Jolie & Jennifer Lopez are the ones who scare me.
I now have GOP friends claiming Obama is a Republican because of his Cabinet picks - strange - they are majority Democrat -- but for some reason the GOPers now want to call dibs..... The same GOP who called him a terrorist, communist, Muslim (as if that mattered), "death to Israel", socialist, etc.....
Obama seems to consistently Out-Fox Fox News. What can they say??? Even that ditz Gretchen on Fox & Friends was called out on her Blago rant. She cannot understand that following the direction of the AG during an investigation is what a president-elect is suppose to do. Of course, the Bush folks never really demonstrated much respect for the Justice Dept.
jdcasey