no mention of a public option. If Senator Hagan expects to get a grip on cost, the public option should be a central piece of the legislation. How else does she expect to create competition in an industry that seems to think fewer customers and higher premiums are the best business model?
It is a nice speech, the same kind of thing Republicans say every day. Without a large-scale public option, however, it's just noise.
Same problem with guys like Bill Roper and Bob Greczyn. They talk a mean game about apple pie and the flag, but when push comes to shove they blink and fall back on meaningless drivel about incremental improvements. Hell, Roper even says he likes the Baucus plan, which has been universally panned as completely incapable of addressing the actual problems we're facing.
It's hard to understand where these guys are coming from. To accomplish their goals without a public option, there would have to be a level of government "interference" in private insurance that would just become another game of whack-a-mole ... meaning they'd find a way around it.
Insurance companies are right in there with the administration trying to work out a viable health insurance plan for those that cannot currently afford it. Believe it. There has been a huge change in how this important issue has progressed and know that the insurance companies know that if there is, indeed, a public option or even a "co-opt" option, they are going to be, or better put, want to be involved. This is not something up for banter, this is very real, folks. But, is it a bad thing? I am of the opinion that it is not. I believe that on the grand scheme of things, we are going to see health insurance and overall health care costs reduced because of the Obama administration's efforts. Will it be what was originally proposed? No, of course not. Will it eventually be good for America? I believe it will.
___________________________________________________
Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
__ P.J. O'Rourke
If you think insurance companies are in this for the good of average Americans, I'd like to get my hands on whatever you're inhaling these days. Insurance companies have one mission and one mission only: maximize shareholder return.
They are fighting a public option like crazy because it would inevitably cut their profit margins.
Health reform means several things:
1. Make sure everybody can get the care they need at a reasonable cost
2. Hold down the overall cost of care ... so it doesn't consume half of a typical family's income as Hagan indicated it would in the next five or six years
3. Improve the overall health of our citizenry.
Insurers have no interest in any of these things. Each element would undermine their earnings.
A mandate requiring you to buy insurance without the provision of an affordable option would be far worse than the current system we have. Sure something would get passed in Congress ... but that "something" would be the "insurance profits preservation act."
Listen to this guy talk. He used to be on the inside.
Where did I say insurance companies are in this for the good of Americans?
I love ya, James, but you've TOTALLY misread what I was saying here.
I was only saying that insurance companies are involved in this big time. Now, If I'm wrong on that, I'll admit it if you show that. You're the MAN here, so I'm at a disadvantage with regard to rhetoric, but from what I've read in the newspapers and on different sites, the insurance companies are working with some of the legislators to formulate this bill.
Hate it that you've put that on here. My communication here was not meant to be anything but information, nothing more.
___________________________________________________
Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
__ P.J. O'Rourke
I just needed a place to rant after a Senator today said that the legislation needed to slow down because "all those folks hired to review it" won't have time to do their jobs ... meaning lobbyists of course.
You're absolutely right, insurance companies do have their hands on this legislation ... and that's because Democrats in the House and Senate put more stock in what those corporate executives think than what you or I think.
If you're an insurance company exec, you can get in to see a Senator anytime you want. Try doing that as a regular citizen ... and you'll be lucky if you don't die of old age first.
You're a good man, Foxtrot ... I love reading your comments and posts ... I wish you'd do more. I didn't mean to be harsh toward you ... I'm just frustrated with the whole damn mess these days.
I know sometimes I am seen as someone that says things here that shouldn't be put here, but I do not mean harm. I mean to keep us thinking, keep us up on what makes some of our efforts go astray.
I am wrong sometimes, I know that, but not because I am not dedicated to most of what our party sees as important.
I accept the messages that discount what I say. I know they come from the heart. I expect them and cherish every one of them.
___________________________________________________
Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
__ P.J. O'Rourke
Submitted by PackMan97 on Wed, 09/23/2009 - 2:58pm.
Health insurance is expensive because health care is expensive.
Trying to drive down the cost of health insurance without doing anything about the factors that drive the cost of the actual health care patients are receiving isn't going to fix a single thing.
"Death panels". Even the far right has rid themselves of that idiocy. Why in the world did that surface in the first place? Glenn Beck? Hannity? Where did that come from, anyway?
But, James, this whole debate is really not about those kinds of ridiculous tags. It goes far beyond that and the populace didn't get their view of Obama's health care initiatives from that kind of remark. There is far more involved here than that. I hope you realize that.
What must be done is for the democrats to show legitimate reasons why the health insurance initiatives needs to happens rather than be caught up in snipets like "death panels". If we do not give good reasons with reasoned analysis of why there is a good need for improved health insurance in this country, this is not going to be anything but window dressing and will not correct a very real problem.
___________________________________________________
Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
__ P.J. O'Rourke
Submitted by Dr. Quigley on Wed, 09/23/2009 - 6:30pm.
I think everyone agrees that health care seems expensive, relative to other services. Or, at least that health care costs seem to be rising faster relative to other services.
It can't be just an issue of "greed" - electronics manufacturers and big agrabusinesses are greedy too, but their prices haven't been soaring like health care.
Collusion among mutual beneficiaries to foster the spiraling up of costs. Back scratching run amok.
The other big thing is our collective obsession with longevity. We prolong life whenever we can ... it is a cultural bias grounded, I believe, in some bizarre and twisted religiosity.
Submitted by OrganicGeorge on Thu, 09/24/2009 - 8:21am.
burst in 08.
Agribusiness was eating the fat hog until the hedge funds ran the price of feed grains through the roof based on pure speculation. How quickly you forget the high price of milk, eggs and meat just 18 months ago.
A nice speech but...
no mention of a public option. If Senator Hagan expects to get a grip on cost, the public option should be a central piece of the legislation. How else does she expect to create competition in an industry that seems to think fewer customers and higher premiums are the best business model?
Progressive Democrats of North Carolina
Hagan's not going to commit to anything
It is a nice speech, the same kind of thing Republicans say every day. Without a large-scale public option, however, it's just noise.
Same problem with guys like Bill Roper and Bob Greczyn. They talk a mean game about apple pie and the flag, but when push comes to shove they blink and fall back on meaningless drivel about incremental improvements. Hell, Roper even says he likes the Baucus plan, which has been universally panned as completely incapable of addressing the actual problems we're facing.
It's hard to understand where these guys are coming from. To accomplish their goals without a public option, there would have to be a level of government "interference" in private insurance that would just become another game of whack-a-mole ... meaning they'd find a way around it.
She knows the facts and knows that Americans are
being taken to the cleaners by the insurance industry. Why wouldn't she committ to a public option?
Happening as we speak
Insurance companies are right in there with the administration trying to work out a viable health insurance plan for those that cannot currently afford it. Believe it. There has been a huge change in how this important issue has progressed and know that the insurance companies know that if there is, indeed, a public option or even a "co-opt" option, they are going to be, or better put, want to be involved. This is not something up for banter, this is very real, folks. But, is it a bad thing? I am of the opinion that it is not. I believe that on the grand scheme of things, we are going to see health insurance and overall health care costs reduced because of the Obama administration's efforts. Will it be what was originally proposed? No, of course not. Will it eventually be good for America? I believe it will.
___________________________________________________
Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
__ P.J. O'Rourke
I'll have what you're smoking
If you think insurance companies are in this for the good of average Americans, I'd like to get my hands on whatever you're inhaling these days. Insurance companies have one mission and one mission only: maximize shareholder return.
They are fighting a public option like crazy because it would inevitably cut their profit margins.
Health reform means several things:
1. Make sure everybody can get the care they need at a reasonable cost
2. Hold down the overall cost of care ... so it doesn't consume half of a typical family's income as Hagan indicated it would in the next five or six years
3. Improve the overall health of our citizenry.
Insurers have no interest in any of these things. Each element would undermine their earnings.
A mandate requiring you to buy insurance without the provision of an affordable option would be far worse than the current system we have. Sure something would get passed in Congress ... but that "something" would be the "insurance profits preservation act."
Listen to this guy talk. He used to be on the inside.
Whoa !!
Where did I say insurance companies are in this for the good of Americans?
I love ya, James, but you've TOTALLY misread what I was saying here.
I was only saying that insurance companies are involved in this big time. Now, If I'm wrong on that, I'll admit it if you show that. You're the MAN here, so I'm at a disadvantage with regard to rhetoric, but from what I've read in the newspapers and on different sites, the insurance companies are working with some of the legislators to formulate this bill.
Hate it that you've put that on here. My communication here was not meant to be anything but information, nothing more.
___________________________________________________
Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
__ P.J. O'Rourke
It's all good
I just needed a place to rant after a Senator today said that the legislation needed to slow down because "all those folks hired to review it" won't have time to do their jobs ... meaning lobbyists of course.
You're absolutely right, insurance companies do have their hands on this legislation ... and that's because Democrats in the House and Senate put more stock in what those corporate executives think than what you or I think.
If you're an insurance company exec, you can get in to see a Senator anytime you want. Try doing that as a regular citizen ... and you'll be lucky if you don't die of old age first.
You're a good man, Foxtrot ... I love reading your comments and posts ... I wish you'd do more. I didn't mean to be harsh toward you ... I'm just frustrated with the whole damn mess these days.
Appreciate the comments, James
I know sometimes I am seen as someone that says things here that shouldn't be put here, but I do not mean harm. I mean to keep us thinking, keep us up on what makes some of our efforts go astray.
I am wrong sometimes, I know that, but not because I am not dedicated to most of what our party sees as important.
I accept the messages that discount what I say. I know they come from the heart. I expect them and cherish every one of them.
___________________________________________________
Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
__ P.J. O'Rourke
Health Providors work hard to confuse
seniors
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8414
Avoids the real problem
Health insurance is expensive because health care is expensive.
Trying to drive down the cost of health insurance without doing anything about the factors that drive the cost of the actual health care patients are receiving isn't going to fix a single thing.
Ah yes
That's why we need death panels.
Can I be allowed to laugh at that?
"Death panels". Even the far right has rid themselves of that idiocy. Why in the world did that surface in the first place? Glenn Beck? Hannity? Where did that come from, anyway?
But, James, this whole debate is really not about those kinds of ridiculous tags. It goes far beyond that and the populace didn't get their view of Obama's health care initiatives from that kind of remark. There is far more involved here than that. I hope you realize that.
What must be done is for the democrats to show legitimate reasons why the health insurance initiatives needs to happens rather than be caught up in snipets like "death panels". If we do not give good reasons with reasoned analysis of why there is a good need for improved health insurance in this country, this is not going to be anything but window dressing and will not correct a very real problem.
___________________________________________________
Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
__ P.J. O'Rourke
Why is health care so expensive?
I think everyone agrees that health care seems expensive, relative to other services. Or, at least that health care costs seem to be rising faster relative to other services.
It can't be just an issue of "greed" - electronics manufacturers and big agrabusinesses are greedy too, but their prices haven't been soaring like health care.
So what is it?
It's like the military-industrial-Congressional complex
Collusion among mutual beneficiaries to foster the spiraling up of costs. Back scratching run amok.
The other big thing is our collective obsession with longevity. We prolong life whenever we can ... it is a cultural bias grounded, I believe, in some bizarre and twisted religiosity.
Actually the Agribusiness bubble
burst in 08.
Agribusiness was eating the fat hog until the hedge funds ran the price of feed grains through the roof based on pure speculation. How quickly you forget the high price of milk, eggs and meat just 18 months ago.
Now the USDA is bailing out the big Ag corporations to the tune of $150,000,000.00 million dollars and counting. http://www.rationalreview.com/content/69052
Not one dime for small dairies but plenty of cash for corporate CAFO's.
The entire system is corrupt.
PS Senator Hagen could not bring herself to say Public Option. I for one will work very hard against her election.